22 Comments

  • Cosmococcic

    Great post, I agree with everything you’ve written here; I’ve certainly found it to be true in my life.

    But reflecting on this reality for my son, who is soon to attend college, is a source of worry for me. Your passage, “…a man should not ask for verbal permission from a woman before escalating to the next step sexually, … to me this is one of the most obvious and natural, even wonderful, aspects of our sexual nature” is one I want to communicate to him but how to do so when this action has now taken on an air of criminality?

    This is from the “enough is enough” New York state statute, which applies to all students of State University of New York campuses:”Affirmative consent is a knowing, voluntary, and mutual decision among all participants to engage in sexual activity. Consent can be given by words or actions, as long as those words or actions create clear permission regarding willingness to engage in the sexual activity. Silence or lack of resistance, in and of itself, does not demonstrate consent.”

    It’s a real conundrum to advise him to do things that will make him successful with women, to have him lead a happier life, and to have happier women around him when those very activities probably put him at greater risk of sexual assault charges.

    • Kitten Holiday

      I’m no lawyer, but here’s what I think. In this environment, there is the expectation of verbal consent before sex and it has come to the stage where it nearly needs to be both verbal and written consent.

      So, in my opinion, the escalating, teasing and seduction I describe includes the behaviors that do not include oral or penetrative sex. Why would you ask to hold her hand or kiss her? You wouldn’t ask to pull out her chair, pay for her movie ticket or open her door. But you also wouldn’t open the door if she’s standing 12 feet away. You would read the situation, her body language and the environment to determing the right time. You do these things out of his desire to give her a pleasant experience, to show her you admire her.

      When it comes to sex, I believe this applies even to older daters but definitely younger college age kids. They are just having sex too fast and they are doing it not as a result of an escalated arousal due to seduction but due to reduced inhibitions due to alcohol.

      So, I would first say, don’t rush it. Anticipation is the best aphrodisiac. Use that to their advantage. There are a lot of really fun, exciting, pleasing things to do before getting to the point of sex.

      The next thing I would say is by the time sex is a possibility, they should be talking about it openly. So, if they have the self-restraint to not go from first kiss to sex in the first date, not only will they be more excited to get it on, but also they will be more certain and excited about their decision.

      Talking about sex, having sexy conversations, is not a turn off. Asking for permission or putting the decision fully in her court IS a turn off. But they can talk about how great it would feel, what they like. He can talk dirty about all the ways he wants to touch her. Not only does this escalate arousal, it also informs them and gives them an opportunity to talk about preferences.

      Women’s sexuality is very mental, so talking about sex (it doesn’t even have to be raunchy) will turn her on even more.

      “I would love to touch you like this, would you like that?”
      “I can’t wait to taste you, does that turn you on?”

      These are ways to talk about sex in a seductive, escalating way without transferring the responsibility to her. She always has the opportunity to say no, or even to say, “I’m not sure if I would like that.” and from there he can adjusts, slow down, talk about something else.

      There is also something called a yes ladder that is well known both in business and in pick up. I won’t go into it here but basically pleasing questions that lead to a yes answer create comfort, intimacy and agreement.

      Beyond that, the biggest thing that protects kids in this litigious environment is to not have sex under the influence. It clouds their judgment. Seduction is a process of making a woman feel both secure and excited. Alcohol reduces her desire for security while increasing her desire for excitement. So, it negates the need for seduction. But that also opens up a lot of risk because the man has not done the work in establishing the environment where she trusts him to share her body. The alcohol has obliterated her concern for trust.

      So, while we all agree that getting behind the wheel when intoxicated could lead to ending your life, someone elses, going to jail, a dangerous accident. We need to also impress upon the youth (and ourselves) that initiating sexual contact with a new partner while intoxicated invites those exact same risks.

      • *DaniCalifornia*

        Great article. You described exactly what I want. But as a very strong, independent female, that is VERY hard to find. And I can’t pretend to be someone I’m not. I would LOVE to be in a relationship that women now consider oppressive of whatever bullshit they call it. I want to be with a man who is my man! I make so many bid decisions all day, I want him to make some for me. Kinda how I’ll decide what he’s eating for dinner.
        And nothing dries up my vagina like “Can I kiss you” or “Do you wanna have sex?” Ugg.
        If you want to have sex with me, perhaps try, I dunno, maybe touching me, kissing me, getting a closer to me, you’ll be surprised how quickly that will make me want it.
        But it’s more than that too, I want HIM to hold down certain aspects of our life, and me, others. I’m reliable, and expect the same.
        Even us girls with big fancy jobs that don’t need shit from anyone sometimes just wanna ride her man’s dick, pull his hair and call him Daddy! ?

      • *DaniCalifornia*

        Great article. You described exactly what I want. But as a very strong, independent female, that is VERY hard to find. And I can’t pretend to be someone I’m not. I would LOVE to be in a relationship that women now consider oppressive of whatever bullshit they call it. I want to be with a man who is my man! I make so many bid decisions all day, I want him to make some for me. Kinda how I’ll decide what he’s eating for dinner.
        And nothing dries up my vagina like “Can I kiss you” or “Do you wanna have sex?” Ugg.
        If you want to have sex with me, perhaps try, I dunno, maybe touching me, kissing me, getting a closer to me, you’ll be surprised how quickly that will make me want it.
        But it’s more than that too, I want HIM to hold down certain aspects of our life, and me, others. I’m reliable, and expect the same.
        Even us girls with big fancy jobs that don’t need shit from anyone sometimes just wanna ride her man’s dick, pull his hair and call him Daddy! ?

  • Janine Ripper

    Interesting post. A lot I agreed with, have thought about, and a bit that has challenged my thinking of relationships and my position in that relationship… I know I love dancing with a man who leads, gliding across the dance floor rather than me stumbling over his and my own feet. In a relationship and the bedroom. Well, I can see both sides. I used to be with a romantic, soft man and didnt like it, went the opposite, got heart broken, now Im with a guy who is both romantic and leads at times. But i think cause I was brought up so independent I’ve always challenged the feminine and actually allowing myself to be that way has been a long journey!

    • Kitten Holiday

      It does take a lot of untangling, doesn’t it? We do want to feel strong but we need that balance and there aren’t many positive examples on how to keep it. Thanks for reading! I’m following you now and look forward to getting to know you better!

  • Robert Fuentes Jr

    I feel you have established a credible foundation where many will find a common ground and you did build on that to bring your point to the forefront. I just love how you mixed metaphors and grabbed the reader by the throat and shook them a little to bring them back to the subject. In the past, I was afraid you were writing more from your point of view – Kitten Holiday -, that risked alienating people, but this post definitely brought me to believe you are speaking to all people and that you are offering a throwback to how both women and men are. I guess I always had that understanding in my mind, but you wrote it in a way that gave me an “a-ha” moment where I found truth in many of your points. I both enjoyed and reflected my own situation reading your post. Thank you!

  • Dan

    Spot on. The uncertainty of a first date, first kiss, etc is what makes it exciting and challenging. I wouldn’t want to be 100% sure about a first kiss. How boring would that be? I want a challenge, and the feeling that I am seducing or charming her into wanting that first kiss. Confidence is attractive, and I enjoy taking that chance.

  • Stephie Ann Lee

    Love this. So sad that there is no definition to a relationship anymore. Men and women alike have fear of commitment and all to often opt out because as you stated there are way to many Options. Who needs a relationship when you can have anything at your finger tips. I by nature am a lover. I am romantic and passionate and I love pleasing my man. I am very submisive and wait for the man to take the lead. That’s how it should be. I could go on for days about how women dress so it leaves nothing to the imagination. So many avenues here. It all makes me sick. I would love to time travel back to the days of fidelity and and commitment and marriage. Thanks for the good read. I am glad someone sees it the way I do.

  • Stephie Ann Lee

    Love this. So sad that there is no definition to a relationship anymore. Men and women alike have fear of commitment and all to often opt out because as you stated there are way to many Options. Who needs a relationship when you can have anything at your finger tips. I by nature am a lover. I am romantic and passionate and I love pleasing my man. I am very submisive and wait for the man to take the lead. That’s how it should be. I could go on for days about how women dress so it leaves nothing to the imagination. So many avenues here. It all makes me sick. I would love to time travel back to the days of fidelity and and commitment and marriage. Thanks for the good read. I am glad someone sees it the way I do.

  • Ann Sterzinger

    Very well said. Are people really so socially retarded these days that they can’t tell whether someone wants sex without asking verbal permission every step of the way? I suspect it’s rather fear of lawsuits, which is even sadder, but girls today seem to feel they’re entitled to be more mercurial than wet cats.

  • Randall

    Wow, you’re a great writer and you’re a woman who understands the meaning of the red pill. You’ve got a new reader.

  • K.B. Peters

    Came back and read this all the way through. There are men who like romance and… “romantical” things. I have memories that keep me warm on cold, lonely nights like a stolen weekend with my ex at the SC beach in Feb… waking up with her looking out over the sea through sliding glass door… dolphins frolicking in the surf as the sunlight shimmered off the waves. Coming up behind her and wrapping a blanket around her as I led her out onto the balcony without a word. Perhaps I’m odd but sex without some sort of passion is empty as fak. Sure, the excitement every once in a blue moon when there’s a spark and the opportunity arises, maybe… passing ships on a nine hour overseas flight with time to kill and some sort of desire in me to seduce this exotic beauty I managed to win the lottery and get to sit beside. It doesn’t happen without some passion. But still, as a man, I love that challenge of making you feel something… and teasing is a HUGE turn on but it works both ways. Asking permission, agreed, is a turn off. Personally, I’d much rather have you growl, “Dammit! Stick it in me! Now!” than say, “yes, you may.”

  • Anon

    “Whats the worst that could happen? If you kiss me and I don’t want it? What will happen? I might pull away. I might turn my cheek. Some women might slap you. These women are ridiculously dramatic but I know they exist. It might be awkward. Oooh big deal. You’re awkward! You’re embarrassed! Honey if you can’t handle an awkward or embarrassing moment, you aren’t ready to date because they happen, more than the movies will tell you!”

    Well, as we’ve learned after this recent purging of famous people and all these Title IX college cases recently, the worst that can happen is you get labeled a rapist publicly, get put on a sex offender registry, lose your job, and become a social pariah who can’t get a job and eventually end up homeless living under a bridge in the tiny little section of a city sex offender laws allow you to exist in. 🙁

    Hyperbolic I know, but there’s a reason some men have taken to secret filming. The penalties for the filming if discovered are lot lighter than the alternative. You have people in public unironically saying that if you agree to have sex and regret it later that’s rape. And these comments aren’t followed by hordes of people shouting down this insanity. Instead it has NY Times articles defending this sort of thing.

    I think this article is a case of too little too late. I agree with a lot of what you say here, but America has gone mad lately and I don’t see it getting better any time soon. Maybe we’re due for another conservative Victorian era of sexuality until we get another sexual reformation like we had in the 1970s. Before it was done in the name of godlyness. Now it’s done in the name of feminist gender theory. 🙁

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